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Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change

observador	Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:36:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 892 of 970 Since 10/1/2002	Friends, I just confirmed the "generation" change from another forum in Portuguese. The following is the text in Portuguese: Transcrição de A Sentinela - 15 de fevereiro de 2008 - pag. 24 parágrafo 15: 15Hoje, as pessoas que não têm entendimento espiritual acham que não há nada de "impressionantemente observável" com respeito ao sinal da presença de Jesus. Acham que tudo continua como antes. (2 Ped. 3:4) Por outro lado, os fiéis irmãos ungidos de Cristo, a atual classe de João, reconhecem esse sinal como se fosse um relâmpago e entendem seu real significado. Como grupo, esses ungidos compõem a atual "geração" de contemporâneos que não passará "até que todas estas coisas ocorram".Isso indica que alguns dos irmãos ungidos de Cristo ainda estarão vivos na terra quando a predita grande tribulação começar. __________ (nota) Pelo visto, o período no qual "esta geração" vive pararece corresponder ao período abrangido pela primeira visão do livro de Revelação. (Rev. 1:10-3:22) Esse aspecto do dia do Senhor se estende deste 1914 até que o último dos fiéis ungidos morra e seja ressucitado - Veja Revelação - Seu Grandioso Clímax Está Próximo!, página 24. parágrafo 4. And here is the English translation: Watchtower - February 15 2008 - page 24 paragraph 15: 15Today, people who don't have the spiritual understanding think that there is nothing of "stunningly observable" as to the signs of Jesus' presence. They reason that all continues as before. (2 Peter 3:4) On the other hand, the faithful brothers of Christ, the present class of John, recognize this sign as if it was a lightning and understand its real meaning. As a group, those anointed comprise the present "generation" of comtemporaries who won't pass away "until all the things come to pass".* This indicates that some of anointed brothers of Christ will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins. footnote: * Apparently, the period in which "this generation" lives seems to correspond to the period covered by the first vision of the book of Revelation. (Rev. 1:10-3:22) This aspect of the day of the Lord extends from 1914 until when the last of the faithful anointed dies and is ressurected - See Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand! page 24, paragraph 4. Enjoy! Observador.
prophecor	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:41:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Pennsylvania Post 4715 of 5043 Since 12/4/2003	Here We Go Again
hubert	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:47:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 2390 of 2965 Since 6/12/2004	New light. Hubert
Priest73	Re: Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:53:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Wallis and Futuna Post 1275 of 5415 Since 3/11/2006	new light? its time to change the bulb.
JCanon	Re: Re: Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:03:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 2646 of 3829 Since 3/7/2001	Amazing. Thanks for this info. I must admit and has been commented before, at least this seems to be a better explanation for a failed "generation" of 80 years in 1994 for the coming of the "great tribulation." With the new JW-only magazines coming out, no telling what they will be using for more control of their followers. They needed a better "last generation" explanation so now they have it. Oh well.... JCanon
tijkmo	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:12:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Scotland, Glasgow Post 4060 of 4724 Since 3/17/2005	well if you make enough guesses one of them is gonna come true eh
carla	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:15:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 3480 of 4499 Since 4/23/2005	Won't most rank & file say there is no change?
JCanon	Re: Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:38:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 2648 of 3829 Since 3/7/2001	Won't most rank & file say there is no change? It won't matter to them. The WTS has always had in place the concept that the actual "fulfillment" of something is what determines the correct interpretation. Therefore, if the 80 years from 1914 to 1994 didn't work out, as one would think was the reference, then they presume that was not what Jesus really meant and now they have come up with this meaning... one that connections a loose concept of a "generation" to the events in the Bible. Basically they are thinking that at least one person of the anointed who is last sealed into the kingdom would be alive at the time of the "great tribulation" and Armageddon, so that fulfills it and allows to extend past the Biblical-based "generation" of either 40 or 80 years. But on this point it's a moot point anyway. That's because the Bible clearly says the tribulation is completely over before the "sign of the son of man" appears. "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days....". JWs absolutely need for this to mean, "Immediately after the beginning of the tribulation.." Thus those who see the "sign of the son of man" are those who see it at the last minute during Armageddon. Fine. But the Bible doesn't say that. It says AFTER the tribulation, meaning it is over. If the tribulation is "Armageddon" then this happens AFTER Armageddon. That means the second coming is AFTER Armageddon. It doesn't work. This error thus is more significant than an expanded concept of the "last generation." But this in no way means the Bible is not true, That's because, in this case, the "great tribulation" is not Armageddon but is talking about WWII and the HOLOCAUST. This is when the Jews are almost completely exterminated and the "days had to be cut short or else no FLESH would be saved." This is talking about the flesh of the natural Jews, two-thirds of whom were wiped out during WII (but as prophesied at Zech 13:8). Thus once the Holocaust is over then they would start seeing the sign of the son of man appear. Incidentally all this happens within a 40-year generation from 1914-1954. So they are clueless totally and in total spiritual darkness as was also prophesied. They have no holy spirit to understand the truth now. So they will end up with one false teaching after another. But we doe see some renewed focus here, some increased activity with respect to the organization with the new JW-Only magazine. Thus it will be fulfilled that when they are destroyed along with BTG it will be when they are "still alive", meaning, still an active and viable organization for all intents and purposes, thus with many current believers. JCanon
WTWizard	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:08:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 1780 of 6570 Since 5/10/2007	Here is what it means. There will still be some of the anointed on the earth when "it" hits. However, since they reopened the door back last May, new anointed ones are going to continue showing up. Which means this can bumble on forever, as new anointed appear to replace those dying out.
AlmostAtheist	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:26:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Ohio Post 5023 of 5775 Since 8/26/2004	>>With the new JW-only magazines coming out, no telling what they will be using for more control of their followers. Yes, it could get pretty wacky. Should be fun! >>since they reopened the door back last May, new anointed ones are going to continue showing up. Which means this can bumble on forever Agreed, I think that's the point of this one. It's brilliant; the urgency is kind of there, since there is a perception of the anointed as an older group ("Hurry up and die already!"), but it keeps them being tied to a date. Dave
drew sagan	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:28:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 2877 of 3698 Since 8/16/2005	Quite absurd, but to be expected I suppose. The last explanation was so confusing that very few JWs 'got' it. What they have set in is a teaching that cannot die out over time. This teaching is now set and will not have to come up against the forces of time.
Priest73	Re: Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:37:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Wallis and Futuna Post 1281 of 5415 Since 3/11/2006	I wonder if C.T. Russel is rolling in his grave?
blondie	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:43:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 23745 of 26207 Since 5/28/2001	* w96 1/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers Moreover, a new figurative family is developing in heaven, consisting of Jesus Christ and his congregational bride of 144,000. (2 Corinthians 11:2) Most of these anointed ones have already died, with heavenly life in view. Some are still alive on earth. All eagerly look forward to the heavenly "marriage of the Lamb." The Bible links that marriage to the time of the approaching great tribulation—the destruction of Babylon the Great, and then the elimination of the rest of Satan’s system.—Revelation 18:2-5; 19:2, 7, 11-21; Matthew 24:21. Does this mean that some of the 144,000 will not be in heaven to take part in the "marriage of the Lamb"? w74 11/15 p. 700 par. 26 The Gathering In of Replacements for the Feast *All the 144,000 chosen and faithful members of the Bridal congregation will there enjoy the meal with their Bridegroom. This scripture shows that the marriage takes place after the destruction of Babylon the Great. (Revelation 19:1-8) 19 After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. They said: "Praise Jah, YOU people! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God, ² because his judgments are true and righteous. For he has executed judgment upon the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged the blood of his slaves at her hand." ³ And right away for the second time they said: "Praise Jah, YOU people! And the smoke from her goes on ascending forever and ever." ⁴ And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God seated upon the throne, and said: "Amen! Praise Jah, YOU people!" ⁵ Also, a voice issued forth from the throne and said: "Be praising our God, all YOU his slaves, who fear him, the small ones and the great." ⁶ And I heard what was as a voice of a great crowd and as a sound of many waters and as a sound of heavy thunders. They said: "Praise Jah, YOU people, because Jehovah our God, the Almighty, has begun to rule as king. ⁷ Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him the glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself. ⁸ Yes, it has been granted to her to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones."
GermanXJW	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:49:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 2248 of 2527 Since 8/5/2001	From page 265 of Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Victor Franz. AFAIK, this was alredax included in the first edition, so long before the change of 1995 and of course 2008: The leadership had made numerous adjustments and now had few remaining options. There was the 1957 starting date for “this generation” proposed by members Schroeder, Klein and Suiter, but that seemed an unlikely choice. There was Albert Schroeder’s idea of applying the phrase to the ‘‘anointed’’ class (an idea that had been floating around the organization for many, many years) which offered certain advantages—there are always additional persons (some fairly young) who each year decide for the first time that they are of the “anointed” class. So this would offer an almost
oompa	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:57:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
North Carolina Post 1320 of 4950 Since 8/15/2007	Blondie, I keep advocating that this information is not really much of a change...if at all. For sure it in no way reverts the GEN teaching back to a lifetime link with 1914 so what difference does it make if the new GEN is just anointed or keeps the GC in? You posted : * w74 11/15 p. 700 par. 26 The Gathering In of Replacements for the Feast *All the 144,000 chosen and faithful members of the Bridal congregation will there enjoy the meal with their Bridegroom. This may not say they will be in heaven before the end, but I believe that used to be the teaching. But some of the NEWER LIGHT found even in our wonderful CLIMAX book states that some of 144K will likely be on earth at Armageddon. I will find the quote and post unless you do it first ....which you will...........oompa................IS THIS NEW WTT MUCH OF A CHANGE AT ALL!!!!??????
oompa	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:07:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
North Carolina Post 1321 of 4950 Since 8/15/2007	Thesea are not even the one I was looking for, but shows some anointed still on earth at the end....thus they are part of the Geneation...is the only difference now that it does not apply to the Great Crowd? NO because accoding to this and common understanding we know there was a great crowd at the end anyway..........But Why the HELL am I doing this as I don't believe it anymore anyway???????????????Damn....oompa *****rechap.20p.128par.30AMultitudinousGreatCrowd* The answer? Only a minority of mankind, including those of the sealed 144,000 still remaining in the flesh and a great crowd of other sheep who will "stand," that is, survive with them.—Compare Jeremiah 35:19; 1 Corinthians 16:13. *****rechap.38p.277PraiseJahforHisJudgments!***** . Similarly, the time must come when all remaining ones on earth of the 144,000 will have been sealed individually as belonging to Jehovah. (2 Timothy 2:19) This will be when the Lamb’s wife will have fully prepared herself—the great majority of the 144,000 having already received their heavenly reward and those still on earth having been finally approved and sealed as faithful ones.
Confession	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:09:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Arizona Post 1788 of 2082 Since 6/29/2004	Is it possible that this announcement will encourage still more to claim anointment? Look for an increase of partakers in the coming years.
blondie	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:14:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 23747 of 26207 Since 5/28/2001	oompa, my point is that this means that some of the anointed will not be at the wedding. Considering that they are part of the bride, it is hard for me to imagine a bride wanting to miss her own wedding. As to the remnant on earth being the "generation,' it is hardly much of a change compared to the one in 1995 when the 1914 generation was eliminated. I think it is just their way of explaining why there were 245 more anointed counted last year and that 4 of the GB are under 60 and were born after 1935 (a point about 1935 being the end of the calling of the anoined that was already eliminated in a recent QFR). The number of jws partaking has changed little over the last ten years....which makes some jws wonder. So the reminder of the explanation that some will still be alive is a CYA measure. I don't think they imagined that over 8,500 would be still hanging on. As long as there is one alive on earth, the end can be still future. If they are saying some of the remnant have to be on earth when the end comes.....then there has to be new anointed to prolong the end the WTS predicts. Blondie
GermanXJW	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:17:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 2249 of 2527 Since 8/5/2001	This is not an announcement, this is a subsentence in an article. I wonder if there is anything further in this issue.
Jourles	Re: Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change posted Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:58:00 GMT (11/25/2007)
Post 3085 of 3176 Since 3/26/2000	This is not an announcement, this is a subsentence in an article. Ah, but do you remember how the last change in '95 was presented? Once sentence was all it took to make the change. It's interesting that Schroeder suggested this very change and Ray recorded it in CoC. Is he still alive today? This is how I still see it --- GB is gradually dying off. To maintain control of the org, the GB must continuously be present on earth. Change anointed doctrine to allow younger ones to become potential GB members. Change generation doctrine to say that the anointed will still be on earth when armageddon comes. You cannot leapfrog in these steps. C&P from prior post: In my view, this new generation change is simply for the GB's benefit. For the r&f, this doctrinal change means nothing. It serves no purpose, has no benefit, or gives the r&f any hope of seeing armageddon come any quicker than before. Prior to this, the carrot on the stick was using the original idea of the generation to keep the r&f on their toes looking forward to paradise coming "soon." But once 1995 came and went, morale took a turn for the worst. The GB was caught in a catch-22 on the 1995 change. On one hand, they had to alter it because of their interpretation of a generation consisting of roughly 80 years. 1914 to 1995 was 81 years long - roughly the span of their idea of a "generation." But on the other hand, they risked losing some members and alienating others with the change. Which was more important from their perspective? They had to maintain that they were still God's special channel dispensing the proper food at the right time. To let the old understanding of the generation continue on, they risked an even greater danger - mass questioning and confusion. By nipping it sooner rather than later, they kept hold of their control over the r&f. Now the question on every r&f's mind is, who are these new guys that are becoming GB members and why are they so young? Again, placing a date on a doctrine is a tricky matter, especially when it turns out you're on the wrong end of it. The WTS set 1935 up for itself. 72 years later, I'm sure they would be hard pressed to find a competent brother of that age or older to offer any cohesive ideas and actually bring them to the table. So what can they do to get around this issue and to bring in some young blood without being questioned over it? Let's change the doctrine again! If the generation now points towards the anointed ones, and that generation will see armageddon come, the GB has just now solved their problem in regards to its future leadership. 1935 will go away. It must go away - it carries no relevance to this new thinking. The GB stays in control. Fairly simple. The r&f can talk about it all they want and what it means for them, but in the end it is just another talking point in the WT and future book study publications. It is not a significant change whatsoever for the r&f - no matter how they disect it or read into it. I gotta hand it to the GB. I knew they would eventually have to get rid of 1935 and I always thought that the "replacement" idea was kind of weak, but changing the idea of the generation, yet again, was a good business move. It keeps the men at the top in power indefinitely. I mean really, how many elderly anointed ones do you know that fall away due to unfaithfulness? I never knew one or even heard of one.

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