Trinity pamphlet, - a response & research

I didn't know how to make my urls into links. Sorry about that

Here ya go (I think):

http://home.comcast.net/~neirr/believeintrinity.htm

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/

~Merry

I read thru them now. The dishonesty of the WTS just shocks me even more and more. Someone should write a book called "The art of ripping passages out of context", using WTS-litterature as examples. They truly are the intellectually (although I hate to use that word about them) most dishonest people in the world. I saw an article once before, written by Alan F, in which he showed how they twisted statements from scientists and ripped quotes out of context to make them suit their agenda, and I was shocked. Well, this trinity-brochure is even more shocking, one a person reads the full quotes from the early church fathers, and the context in which is was written. I want to encourage all JWs who are reading this, to check out what the early church fathers waid for themselves, and then examine the JW-trinity-pamphlet again.  

I'm beyond caring about arguing the Trinity doctrine, but it was the WTS Trinity Borchure that put the last nail in the coffin, for me, regarding and residual belief that they were just misguided.

Freeminds has a brochure available that shows the source of all the quotes they use.  They are clearly completely dishonest in how they pick and match excerpts.  It additionally made me wonder that if their case was so watertight, why resort to those methods?

http://www.freeminds.org/sales/books.htm

 

In my case, the broshure was released after I had already researched the writings of the apostolic fathers/apologists, and I was really shocked at the misrepresentation.....this was the proverbial "last straw" for me.  When the book study started covering the broshure, I tried to find whatever excuse not to go to meetings because I could not sit there and have to let these misrepresentations pass...

 

well the trinity is a false doctrine any way.jehovah is GOD jesus is his son its simple

YOu gotta love the open mind.

PMJ

The issue here isn't the veracity of the doctrine. The issue here is the misrepresentation by the WTS who for decades have misquoted real researchers and academics and twisted what other people say to suit their own purpose.

Please stay on topic

PMJ:

Is it possible for you to miss the point so completely?  Regardless of whether they are right or wrong about the doctrine, they're lying to you, man!

 

So PMJ, if it`s really that simple, then why does the WTS mispresent, distort and twist quotes from the early church fathers on the issue? Why couldn`t they just come flat out and say "ok, we read thru the texts of the early church fathers, and realize that they did in fact believe in the Trinity...but they were wrong in doing so"? Why all the lying?

you sure have.i love how the bible is so clear on this matter.no were in the bible does it say jehovah jesus and the holy spirt are the same person.only if we twist scriptures may it look like they are.but if we look at what the bible realy says its so simple.jehovah is God jesus is his son.not to hard to understand. why do some people have to make it complicated 

well the people you say the wbts have twisted there words may be so.but there only doing it for something no  for a fact is true.the people who may of been miss quoted.have miss quoted the bible in the first place

Because it is complicated. Why does the NT apply scriptures that refer to "Jehovah" and apply them to Jesus?

Just one example:

“And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as Yahweh has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom Yahweh calls” (Joel 2:32).

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, ‘Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.’ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved' "  (Romans 10:9-13)

There are many, many more where that comes from.

(Sorry to contribute to the shift in topic, folks, just wanted to get that in)

Lady Lee, thank you for setting the issue straight.



PMJ - 2 Corinth 3:17 Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.

yes jehovah os lord ans so is jesus.and we have to be thankful to both of them.but this doesnt not mean they are the same person.

So basically you're saying that it's okay to lie if you're misrepresenting someone who lied first?  It's okay for an entity calling itself "God's organization" and "the truth" to lie?

Of course, your statement that the apostolic fathers "misquoted" the Bible is based only on your own presuppositions and not on anything they say per se (or have you read them?)

 

Although I am agnostic \ evolutionist \ my own personal "istic" thing now,

   I still can't see the point of a trinity, when the Jehovah of the old testament is so different to the God of the New Testament. Why try to equate the Jesus who promoted Love with the God of war?> just curious.

There are also many reasons to believe that it is Jesus who spoke in the OT as well. Every voice heard and image seen was Jesus. According to scripture, no one has seen nor heard the Father at any time.